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August 08, 2005

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Did you know that Korea ranks second in number of overseas Christian missionaries, just before the USA? Did you know that if I want to meet a buddhist, here in Korea, I have to go to a temple in the mountains?

I am not at all surprised by your accounts.

Since the football World Cup 2002, Koreans shout "Fighting!" to impress the adversaries... or encourage the friends. I don't think they understand what it possibly means.

Christian Koreans are very religious and do a lot of prozelitizing and some, occasionally burn down Buddhist temples, without any reaction of the population. If you are interested by the situation here, refer to these old but interesting pages:
http://www.buddhapia.com/eng/
tedesco/index.html

Buddhism is often considered as a superstition or something out of fashion, like a fossile -- in the best case.

My few friends here are all Christians, very Christians, I have no choice, but, at least, they never tried to convert me... until now.

You cannot possibly imagine the number of churches, specially in Seoul, it's amazing, with read neon crosses everywhere...

I forgot to ask a very important question, since you seemed upset by the behaviour of these Christian Koreans: should we, buddhists, do something about this, and, if so, what can we do?

Some countries actually expel Christians missionaries from time to time, as Vietnam, or even always, as Bhoutan. But, as Westeners used to freedom of religion, can/ought we support these policies?

In your previous post, you said that there have been enough squabbling between religions. Is this true, I mean, really true? Religious debate is something promoted inside monastic traditions of Tibetan Buddhism and Catholicism. No Crusade has ever been decided because of a religious debate between Muslims and Christians, right?

I think that we can also tackle this question by noting that I don't think there is even one Buddhist argument against the "Intelligent Design" argument: the recorded arguments are the ones historically used by Hindus, but not used by Christians, especially contemporary fundamentalist or evangelist Christians.

In case of Intelligent Design, scientific arguments are quite enough, though.

Sorry to butt in once again but it is helpful to remember that any attempt to bring enlightenment into our world will meet with the strongest resistance.

As lay buddhists we are not permitted to force our beliefs or even give teachings to those who are unreceptive.It takes immense amounts of merit to find and be taught by a qualified Lama.
Perhaps the best teaching for those who have no faith in dharma is by example.

As this is appearing we probably need to strengthen our practice , develop our understanding of emptiness and have unshakable faith in the dharma.

Christian -- Very quickly cuz I gotta run: if missionaries misbehaved in my country, I'd expel them and ban them for life. "Freedom of religion" does not include teaching children to hate and fear, this having no basis in any true religious teaching. They're in for a surprise; Purevbat is very powerful here, connected all the way up to the Prime Minister and President.

Secondly, there is a ton of cogent argument in the Mahayana literature detailing the logical fallacy of a separate God as the omnipotent creative force behind phenomenal appearance. But you know this. The obvious examples are Shantideva's Bodhicaryavatara, ch. 9 and Chandrakirti's Madhyamakavatara ch. 6, but there are a zillion more.

I am a Mongolian Christian and would like to criticize Buddhist lamas. These fat buddhist monks do nothing for Mongolia. Now i think Mongolian communists were right when they called Lamaists parasites of Mongolian society. Nowdays many Buddhist temples and monasteries are being opening in Mongolia. I think this is not very good. We Mongolians have a bitter memories of Mongolian last Buddhist Emperor which was called "Living Buddha". He died in 1924 and then People's Government prohibited his next reincarnation. This so called Living Buddha was not that holy. He became blind because of syphilis and lived a luxurious way of life when Mongolians lived in utter poverty.His name is 8th Javzandamba Bogd Khaan. Now his 9th reincarnation is somewhere in Tibet. We Mongolians do not need him.....

Someone suggest to drive Christians from Mongolia.. No one has the right to drive Mongolian Christians from their Homeland??? Buddhism came from Tibet to Mongolia. In ancient times, some Mongolian tribes followed Nestorian Christianity.

Dear Ja, it seemed that your words were coming directly from lama, who once tought us exactly that... Thanks for reminding me of these precious words.

Konchog, after talking to a Mongolian student I met here, I realised that the tactics of Christian missionaries nowadays are similar to those of Korean Christians 30 years ago in Korea: they come to poor people and offer rice in exchange of their attending church, or some child to be sent (a friend of mine was converted during childhood this way).

You know how much I like contradictory conversation and wondering (sometimes wandering:) I think I feel the same, but it is not easy to formalise these feelings in laws. For instance, teaching fear and hate to children is a not uncommon, especially fear (fear of the father and by, extension, of God). Also, I remember seeing, in a TV documentay about a trial in the USA, similar manipulation of children (crying hate words against the accused). I am afraid these techniques were learned from the outside of Korea but are very successful. This is part of the cultural self-destruction.

I strongly wish that things will evolve differently in Mongolia. I believe your presence there is an example, the kind of example Ja mentionned.

As far as Intelligent Design is concerned, thank you for the references, I am going to re-read the chapters:-) But they do not refer to Intelligent Design directly, but (from memory) to the existence of an self-existing divinity with certain attributes (and then, as a consequence, show some contradiction, in the Madhyamaka way).

Intelligent Design (ID) is different, in the outside. In short, it seeks holes in the evolution theory and natural selection and fill them with pure beliefs. It's a disguised tactic, or even strategy, of some Christian fundamentalists. You can read the EvoWiki or Wikipedia for some starting points. Some minority even believe that aliens created us, which in theory compatible with ID.

Would like to read you more about missionaries activities in Mongolia, if you feel like talking about this topic.

It was a nice post!

I do not agree with Mr.Purevbat Lama that Mongolia is a Buddhist nation. Mongolia is a nation which favors no religion better than another. But of course Tibetan Buddhism has a history of political involvement in Mongolia. Our current President is very Buddhist person. Tibetan Buddhism played a very negative role in Mongolian history. Mongolia is a nation which respects all religion be it Buddhism or Christianity.

Praise the Lord Jesus Christ who died to save us.

Bidnii toloo nas barsan Yesus Hristiig magtya

Sain baina uu dear Gonchig Lama!

First of all, a big THANK YOU !!! for your work. Given the harsh and unfamiliar environment that is Mongolia (no kiddin’), I am impressed with your attitude and efforts – they are truly worthy of a lama. I have stumbled on your blog yesterday and have spent the better part of the day enjoying your stories and pictures.

Now the issue of Christian missionaries. Mongolia is a secular state (laïque) with religion being a matter of personal (and private he-he-he) choice. However, Buddhism is part of our heritage, culture and traditions that was almost completely obliterated and IMHO restoring it would be beneficial for our sense of identity and self-worth.

Hordes of Christian evangelists of various denominations rushed in to fill the post-communism void, deploying lavish funding and high-pressure proselytizing (glossy leaflets, scholarships abroad, parties with music and free food, etc). Contrast that with dirt-poor and disorganized local Buddhist movement in no position to compete. Now, this in itself is not a crime. My beef is with the METHODS used.

There are numerous blatant misrepresentations, deceptions and outright lies habitually employed by these peddlers. They associate Buddhism with backwardness and poverty, and attribute the technological and scientific achievements of the West to its Christian roots. Hello? I thought that it was the inquisitors who burnt millions of women at stake for witchery in the Dark Ages (a fate shares by early thinkers such as Bruno) and whose iron grip forestalled all scientific progress for centuries. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but your typical Bible-belt evangelist is anything but a proponent of scientific progress. Often they impersonate English teachers, and use their propaganda as educational material. How deplorable.

Religion is a personal choice and it should be an informed choice. The presence of western monks like Gonchig is in that sense invaluable. It does help level the playing field. I have deep respect for all Christian faiths, as I feel that the underlying message is more or less the same. Also, as always, diversity and discussion are commendable. But to quote Gonchig Lama, I hope that “when the chips are down, most Mongolians turn to awesome lamas like this”.

Oops, sorry it got so long..

The comments to this entry are closed.


Mongolia Bird List: "L" = Lifer

  • Amur Falcon -- L
  • Arctic (Hoary) Redpoll -- L
  • Arctic Warbler -- L
  • Asian Brown Flycatcher -- L
  • Asian Dowitcher -- L
  • Asian Short-toed Lark -- L
  • Azure Tit -- L
  • Bank Swallow
  • Bar-headed Goose -- L
  • Barn Swallow
  • Bean Goose -- L
  • Black Grouse -- L
  • Black Stork -- L
  • Black Woodpecker -- L
  • Black-billed Magpie
  • Black-eared Kite -- L
  • Black-headed Gull -- L
  • Black-tailed Godwit -- L
  • Black-winged Stilt
  • Blyth's Pipit -- L
  • Bohemian Waxwing -- L
  • Booted Eagle -- L
  • Brown Shrike -- L
  • Carrion Crow
  • Chinese Penduline Tit -- L
  • Chukar -- L
  • Cinereous Vulture
  • Citrine Wagtail -- L
  • Coal Tit
  • Common Cuckoo
  • Common Goldeneye
  • Common Greenshank -- L
  • Common Kestrel
  • Common Merganser
  • Common Pochard -- L
  • Common Raven
  • Common Redpoll
  • Common Redshank -- L
  • Common Rosefinch -- L
  • Common Sandpiper
  • Common Shelduck -- L
  • Common Snipe -- L
  • Common Starling
  • Common Swift
  • Common Tern
  • Crested Lark -- L
  • Curlew Sandpiper -- L
  • Dark-throated Thrush -- L
  • Daurian Jackdaw -- L
  • Daurian Partridge -- L
  • Daurian Redstart -- L
  • Demoiselle Crane -- L
  • Desert Warbler -- L
  • Desert Wheatear -- L
  • Dusky Thrush -- L
  • Dusky Warbler -- L
  • Eared Grebe
  • Eurasian Bullfinch -- L
  • Eurasian Coot -- L
  • Eurasian Curlew -- L
  • Eurasian Griffon
  • Eurasian Hobby
  • Eurasian Jay
  • Eurasian Nutcracker -- L
  • Eurasian Nuthatch -- L
  • Eurasian Skylark
  • Eurasian Sparrowhawk
  • Eurasian Spoonbill -- L
  • Eurasian Three-toed Woodpecker -- L
  • Eurasian Tree Sparrow
  • Eurasian Treecreeper -- L
  • Eurasian Wigeon -- L
  • Eurasian Wryneck -- L
  • Eyebrowed Thrush -- L
  • Falcated Duck -- L
  • Fork-tailed Swift -- L
  • Gadwall
  • Garganey -- L
  • Godlewski's Bunting -- L
  • Goldcrest -- L
  • Golden Eagle
  • Gray Heron
  • Gray Wagtail -- L
  • Great Cormorant
  • Great Crested Grebe
  • Great Gray Shrike -- L
  • Great Spotted Woodpecker
  • Great Tit
  • Greater Short-toed Lark -- L
  • Greater Spotted Eagle -- L
  • Green Sandpiper -- L
  • Green-winged Teal
  • Greenish Warbler -- L
  • Hawfinch -- L
  • Hazel Grouse -- L
  • Hen/Northern Harrier
  • Herring Gull
  • Hill Pigeon -- L
  • Hoopoe
  • Horned Grebe
  • Horned Lark
  • House Sparrow
  • Isabelline Shrike -- L
  • Isabelline Wheatear -- L
  • Kentish (Snowy) Plover -- L
  • Lesser Spotted Woodpecker -- L
  • Lesser Whitethroat -- L
  • Little Bunting -- L
  • Little Owl -- L
  • Little Ringed Plover
  • Long-tailed Rosefinch
  • Long-tailed Tit
  • Long-toed Stint -- L
  • Mallard
  • Marsh Sandpiper
  • Meadow Bunting -- L
  • Mew Gull -- L
  • Mongolian Finch -- L
  • Mongolian Ground-jay -- L
  • Mongolian Lark -- L
  • Northern Lapwing -- L
  • Northern Pintail
  • Northern Shoveler
  • Northern Wheatear
  • Olive-backed Pipit -- L
  • Oriental Plover -- L
  • Oriental Reed Warbler -- L
  • Oriental Turtle Dove
  • Pacific Golden-plover -- L
  • Paddyfield Warbler -- L
  • Pallas' Reed Bunting -- L
  • Pallas's Leaf Warbler -- L
  • Pallas's Sandgrouse -- L
  • Peregrine Falcon
  • Pied Avocet -- L
  • Pied Wheatear -- L
  • Pine Bunting -- L
  • Pine Grosbeak -- L
  • Pintail Snipe -- L
  • Red (Common) Crossbill
  • Red-billed Chough -- L
  • Red-crested Pochard -- L
  • Red-flanked Bluetail -- L
  • Red-necked Grebe
  • Red-throated Flycatcher -- L
  • Richard's Pipit -- L
  • Rock Dove
  • Rock Sparrow -- L
  • Rook -- L
  • Ruddy Shelduck -- L
  • Ruddy Turnstone
  • Ruff -- L
  • Rufous-tailed Robin -- L
  • Saker Falcon -- L
  • Scaly Thrush -- L
  • Sharp-tailed Sandpiper -- L
  • Siberian Accentor -- L
  • Siberian Rubythroat -- L
  • Smew -- L
  • Spotted Flycatcher -- L
  • Spotted Redshank -- L
  • Steppe Eagle -- L
  • Swan Goose -- L
  • Temminck's Stint -- L
  • Thick-billed Warbler -- L
  • Tree Pipit -- L
  • Tufted Duck -- L
  • Twite -- L
  • Upland Buzzard -- L
  • Ural Owl -- L
  • Water Pipit -- L
  • White Wagtail
  • White-cheeked Starling -- L
  • White-naped Crane -- L
  • White-winged (Two-barred) Crossbill -- L
  • White-winged Scoter
  • White-winged Tern -- L
  • Whooper Swan -- L
  • Willow Tit -- L
  • Wood Sandpiper -- L
  • Yellow-billed Grosbeak -- L
  • Yellow-browed (Inornate) Warbler -- L